Thursday, March 17, 2011

Looking for some answers

First off, new look is great!


I haven't thrown my shares at the No yet, as I can't get my head around what may happen if No wins.

Can anyone answer the following?:

If a "no" goes through...
-When do we owe the loaned money back to WTG?
-If it is soon, where does CMM get the money from?
-I know not all believe the NR from March 8th, but they do say they are broke.
-The last PP was not filled, so can we really expect anything from the street?
-What happens if the Russians decide to walk away? They bought most @ .20 or so, so I'm sure anything .21 and over will work for them.

We are sitting around .55...never thought this would happen with a merger/takeover, but it is reality. If we vote no do we get to .20 before a buck? I like the thought of a better deal, or no deal and we keep milling our gold and make lots of money...but the picture doesn't seem too rosey, if you believe any words from management(truth or fiction is yet to be seen). I'm not saying vote yes, as I can't decide myself, but I can't help but think what a no may do if no other offer/white knight emerge.
This whole thing seems to be a bit of perfect timing for WTG, but what if it's because we're not going to make it on our own and we needed them as much as they need us?

51 comments:

Mrstormpay said...

I agree 100% yikes.....
Mrstormpay

Mrstormpay said...

People better think twice about this deal because they have much more on the line then what they think. TSX Listing and access to capital...also loosing the CMM name is worth .40 cents in my books.
Cheers Stormy

Anonymous said...

Lets be clear:

If the NO Vote wins not one penny of the $13.5 M MONEY IS PAID OUT!!!

It would be illegal to put that kind of [blackmail] clause in. CMM only has to pay the $13.5M if the BoD starts RECOMMENDING "other" offers,

or

If the Deutch Bank doesn't give their consent


The $13.5 M penalty has nothing to do with Shareholders and which way they vote.

Payday

yikes1 said...

TSX listing, Access to capital are nice, but at what price would be fair?

Anonymous said...

They need CMM more than we need them.

Ask yourself, which company owns the gold and has the dissenting minority shareholders ? So who has the bigger problem ?

Yes White Tiger can bring things to the table, but they need to do it at the right price.

As for Mr Stormpay, he and Glorieux sold the run up and are working you over.

yikes1 said...

True Payday, but I'm talking about Bridge Loans, not the 13.5Million that we wouldn't owe them.

Anonymous said...

Mr Stormy,

Riddle me this.
Riddle me that.

As far as I recall you were the one "hinting" at some great offer coming down the pike back end of Feb/early March and how we were all going to be pleasantly surprised..... yeah and we all know how that turned out... 0.56c!

So please, please spare me the veiled threats about "so much on the line".


If I didn't know any better, I'd swear you were sitting on the BoD.

PayDay

Anonymous said...

Yikes, Lamaque is currently mining roughly 1200 tpd = profitability if I'm not mistaken.

If the No vote wins, then CMM will need to do a small (less than 5M share) pp to pay off the bridge loan. I even doubt that would be necessary.

Payday

Anonymous said...

How much money, time and effort do you think Finskiy, Major and Scola have put into this so far ?

Yet you think they'll walk away for 21 cents so they can get their bridge loan back, and buy the assets from the liquidator ?

Of course there wouldn't be any other interest would there, this is such a horrible asset, you know we are really very lucky they are willing to take it off our hands. I think I might offer my shares to them for 21 cents.

Very funny.

A deal needs to be done, and it will be, but at the right price.

Anonymous said...

Getting too hot in the hot tub there, Stormy.

I'm betting your friends Bally and Glorieux are at least half out by now, and have left you holding the bags at the station. I hate to think what crap they must have pumped you with.

Choose better friends next time.

Anonymous said...

Stormpay out.....

Anonymous said...

Mr Stormy,

When you play poker holding a crap hand, you can either:

1. FOLD

2. BLUFF

Right now the Russians are bluffing with White Tiger, trying to get as many CMM chips as they can.

Finsky wouldn't be trying to INCREASE his exposure to CMM thru WTG if he was planning on walking away.

Payday

Anonymous said...

Truth hurts.

Nick said...

What I don’t like is the fact only 10% of the total shares are being traded for WTG. They can easily manipulate the stock price as they’ve been doing from day one. Sure I fully agree a TSX listing along with deep pocket investors come from WTG, but at what cost to us CMM share holders?

Clearly the market has spoken, and seeing CMM price hit $0.55 tells me that “THEY” don’t want anything to do with this merger. It’s not rocket science to have the ability to “at the very least” offer us something of value, such as 1:1 or cold hard cash. But no, they took the road of the crook, and are trying to rip us off.

If this merger was to take place, thing about it, what price do you think WTG will be? Who’s to stop this stock from dipping all the way down to $0.55 with us holding the bag on less than half of our original share count. It just doesn’t sound like a fair deal, especially with shady characters that don’t seem to like us share holders.

yikes1 said...

Some decent points payday/annon.
I'm just trying to fill in some of the blanks I have.
I'd love fore nothing more than to carry CMM while they grow, but with this offer, I want to make sure I try to view all possible outcomes.

Anonymous said...

Could it be possible guys that SP is being held down because people think the deal won't go through?
--CK

Anonymous said...

The market is valuing the deal at around 70 cents, that's why we are trading about 20% below that figure.

So likely they think WTG paper will realise about 1.75 post merger.

The good thing is that the market knows that the deal is likely not to take place at this level, so 55 cents is a reasonable base for the share without a deal.

I have a reasonable idea who 'fair for all' is and I think that person will be able to take our concerns straight to the right person.

Never accept the first bid. This one won't fly so there will be better offers.

Anonymous said...

What will happen if for some reason CMM stock price started to increase aggressively to say $0.75 to $0.95 within a matter of a few days, what then will WTG do? It would make their original offer more of a rip-off. It would also force them to come up with a more attractive offer. I believe the markets should be positive with CMM and not negative.

Somebody is obviously scooping up CMM shares on the cheap.

Anonymous said...

I hear you yikes. I am just not sure that Mr Stormpay's judgement is sound.

I expect he is nursing some hurt feelings at the moment, having been pumped up like a basketball.

Do you remember all his predictions, and inside knowledge ? Where do you think that came from ?

Of course, now he will be told the opposite - he'll be given reasons to sell to Finskiy and told he was lucky.

Bally's been running the promo and working the phones for the last two months.

If we get screwed, he can expect a knock at the door from the OSC.

Mike said...

The Markets may yet have more to say. The SP ran up from 60 cents to 80 on "rumors" of a takeover .. got hammered back on "no cash news"
ran up to 80 cents on announcement of merger .. and now are back down.

The last wave down was fear/panic and speculation IMO.

Even with the merger .. merged value of current CMM stock is still above 60 cents.

So if there is nothing further to lose from the merger .. why is the SP trading down to the mid 50's?

Perhaps the market is actually factoring on the merger "not" going through !?

Anonymous said...

probably share holders are looking at this site reading posts from scared,freaked out paraniod posters and bailing ,when if the site didn't exist sp would continue to move along with the market.also every stock out there got hammered.

Wingfong said...

Fitst of all:-
-San Juan is producing 20000oz
-we are current 6moz resources n will be closed to 8moz if an updated NI43-101 is presented tmro (never mind all the other exploration potentials)
-A 3000tpd running mill (it is said that a mill of this cap needs +-$75 million nowadays)
-already steady at 1200tpd, going to be (or already had) 1500tpd and soon 2000tpd, commercial production, cash flow positive
-Lamarque producing 70000 to 75000oz (even by the words of DM)
-gold at $1350/oz
I am willing to bet my last dollar CMM is not a piece of junk. On the contrary, it is a piece of beautiful asset. WHAT ACTUALLY WORRIES ME IS IF WE ALLOW DM TO BE AT THE HELM. We have so much gold in the ground n yet we are not successfully mining it? It will probably be Canada's mining industry's biggest joke if CMM is not an eventual success story

Wingfong said...

If I have my way, get a $30 million loan (worst come to worst pledge 25000oz Au forward for the cash) CHANGE THE CEO, stop all the corporate manuvering craps n concentrate on the mining. I can bet U lots of money will be on the table before U know it. IMHO, it is that simple.

Nick said...

Agreed...

Peggy Sue said...

Guys, Yikes is right. People here are talking like Century has many options and WTG is just scooping it up. The stated vision is to create a mid-tier gold producer. A proposed merger whereby we own 61% of a larger entity, with access to capital, and the man who helped build Norilsk might not be such a bad thing for us!

Someone earlier talked about bringing Peggy back. Peggy was/is un-bankable. She drove the stock to 2 cents and was lucky to catch a Hail Mary pass from Max. Max sees that he can use this as a roll-up vehicle to create real wealth... that's how he gets out - only by achieving here.

Someone also talked about a white knight. There is none. This asset could have been scooped up at any point in the past and never was. But more to the point, anyone making an offer has to negotiate with Max, so... it's not happening.

What do we really know about the WTG assets? They are open pit and in Russia. All of our reserves are deep underground. Are you all really positive that WTG today is not worth 39% of a combined entity? Plus they have over $20m in cash. Plus they have a line of credit for over $20m. Plus they are on the TSX. Plus Max cannot just sell out of a combined entity. He owns too much. So again, he has to create value here.

I think he can. I think they vend in another one, two or three assets and then we have a real valuation. Maybe Polyus takes it out or maybe not - they don't even know that yet... how could they.

I think absent this merger, are shares will come under tremendous pressure... they will go down. The company will be out of money sitting on a great - potentially great - asset.

To conclude: this deal de-risks our opportunity. It gets us on the way to achieving critical mass with access to capital. It puts us on the same side as guys who have thus far stepped in and have a stated desire of building something of significance. Who here or out there rights a cheque to fund Century's operations if they go away?

PS: There's no bashing here and nothing untoward. I am a shareholder wanting the best for shareholders. That's it - straight up.

Moi said...

Even if WTG is worth zero .. and CMM is worth only 60 cents a share

60 cents a share puts current value of CMM at 282 Million .. If WTG is worth (zero) then the new company is worth .. 282 Million.

Divide by the number of outstanding WTG shares 282/310 = 91 cents/share .. worst case senario.

If you think CMM is worth more than 282 Million .. ( and it will be if the market things it can get to cash flow positive... almost a certainty as WTG) The value of the CMM assets then goes above 80 cents and higher as 80 cents would then be support .. as opposed to resistance.

Using 85 cents .. CMM is then worth 400 Million or 1.30 per share of WTG.

The above calculation gives Zero value for WTG

If you factor in:

1) being on the TSX
2) Having access to larger capital markets
3) adding a 20,000 oz producer
4) adding a number of russian exploration plays .. under the direction of a guy that likely plays golf with Putin
5) having all the cash necessary to expidite ramp up of Lamaque .. San Juan .. and also add to the reserves of each

This is worth conservatively another 400 Million in market cap in the near term. WTG SP = 2.60

Realizing the goal of 120,000 oz (on a monthly basis) "near term" .. what is a company like that worth ?

Using 700/oz cash costs and $1350 Gold (- 8000 oz to DB)

84 Million to produce - 151 million in revenue = 67 million in Earnings.

This gets WTG easily to a MC of 800 Million. 2.60/share WTG = 1.04 for your current CMM.

Yes .. It would be much better if CMM could reach 120,000 oz on its own .. achieving 1.70/share

Question?

Do you go for 1.04 .. guaranteed in the near future

.. or do you "hope" for 1.70/share way way way down the road when CMM gets its act together and manages to scrape up enough cash to have the capital required to do what needs to be done

Anonymous said...

It puts us on the same side as guys who have thus far stepped in and have a stated desire of building something of significance.

So why didn't they pay up for some of their warrants rather than create an emergency bridge loan ?

They had their own management in there. Where's the risk if they were serious about backing the company ?

This deal is about them taking even more of the company for cheap paper.

If you think the shares will come under pressure if the merger will not go through you are a nut. The merger clearly won't go through at the moment - where's the pressure ?

Just tell "Max" as you call him (you must be very close) to make a decent offer and we'll all get on with building a proper company.

My guess is that you are actually Bally, and have been sent here after Stormpay came crying to you that we said hurtful things.

Anonymous said...

Peggy Sue... good insight.

I disagree with one of your points though:

"Someone also talked about a white knight. There is none. This asset could have been scooped up at any point in the past and never was. But more to the point, anyone making an offer has to negotiate with Max, so... it's not happening."

This asset was never scooped up in the past because potentially interested parties want to see how things play out before they make a bid... now that CMM is close to production and is "in-play" via a bid, those interested parties are more likely to step up to the plate.

Also, I think Max Finskiy would not be averse to a White Knight bid. He's already caused a complete mess out of this merger proposal. He could pocket a huge gain from CMM and use that money to develop WTG. Do you realize that Finskiy only gains ~15% of CMM by consolidating the two companies? Finskiy is not loaded with cash... otherwise, <5% dissent would not be one of his closing conditions.

Anonymous said...

And here comes 'Moi', another company insider - maybe this one is Bally or maybe British Danny, or that unctuous Eacott stooge.

We should expect these arguments now. Note how well versed they are - they have company figures at their fingertips.

Just go back and tell Max he needs to up the offer.

Simple. We all want to do business.

dave peters said...

I think some of the 'Anonymous' posters should consider adopting forum names, so that the rest of us could follow the conversation better. It would also help their credibility.

Wingfong said...

Peggy Sue
Read your well thought-out piece and then ..."what do we really know about the WTG assets?" . Peggy... this is exactly what troubles me deeply. I don't know n I don't like to guess/assume! I can't find much info for my assessment. There is no web site n only one paragraph in the NR mentioning one 20000oz operating mine, one about to be mined by 2014 n 3 exploration licenses with some difficult to pronounce names in Alaska n Siberia if I recall correctly. As such...perhaps you may be kind enough to supply me with any info U may have so that I can do my due delligence. I may even change my negative perception of TWG too.

Anonymous said...

Have there been any comments from Brian Mok at Union Securities since the offer was announced? What about VC? I don't think he's been seen or heard from in 8 months.

GO said...

"and here comes Moi"

If you cant figure out who I am .. then you have not been around long enough to matter.

But this is not the point .. Even if I was "paid by cmm" .. what does matter? Address the message not the messenger.

Rather than making up fantasies .. try addressing reality and speak to the talking points in my post.

Peggy Sue said...

Guys, I've never met Max Finskiy and I don't work for the company. I bought my first share of Century when the stock was at 60 cents, Peggy was in charge and they were mining (later we found out, high-grading) the open pit. I bought up to 1.20 and I bought down at 2 cents. I call the company and speak with Peter like the rest. But I understand if I can't convince the skeptics... that's fine.

I don't think I'm nuts to suggest that if this deal doesn't pass, we'll be worse off. Today the company doesn't have money. I don't know why at today's gold prices we are not cash flow positive. I don't know why there have been seemingly setback after setback. Perhaps Peggy's mine plan before she left was not very good and the company had over-promised and under-delivered.

But we still need guys prepared to write big cheques. In terms of Max Finskiy exercising warrants, I believe they have previously exercised warrants and put more money into the company - need to check this with Peter.

Also, someone pointed out that the last PP was not fully taken up at 0.39 plus a half warrant at 0.60 - that's true. So who bankrolls Century if Max steps away? I don't see it.

I think we have a great asset, but the mining of it is probably at a high level of complexity. If it were so easy, it would have been done by now. But maybe we're currently at an inflection point and WTG is trying to scoop us cheap? Perhaps, but they bring more to the table than they take in diluting us. I'm not crazy about the short WTG trading history and the fact that it's up 400% since the RTO... but I buy the goal of building something big, I think these guys can do it, and, moreover, I believe they're the only game in town.

Also, when they initially invested in Century at 20 cents... I think they could have bought it for less or even out of bankruptcy. The company was done and Peggy un-bankable. BUT, I believe they did the deal they did to get a vehicle and to get on with things. These guys are do-ers. My impression from everything I see.

Anonymous said...

Peggy, have you not realized that Peter has been promoting this takeover for the past two months to Stormy, Glorieux and probably you as well ?

You don't know why we are not cash positive ? Well don't ask Peter as he doesn't know either.

Out of money ? Are we really ? We only have the company's word for it now, two months after it happened. So much for material disclosure.

Russians exercizing warrants ? No they haven't. They chose to grant a high interest loan whilst they were negotiating takeing over the company (conflict of interest?). But don't worry - they have YOUR best interests at heart.

Ask Peter about the Russians and what he truly thinks of them. You may be surprized that this deal isn't as great as you think it is.

"Conmen being conned by smarter conmen."

Too funny.

bigjohn37 said...

Hi Peggy Sue. I respect your views, but I disagree with you. What is wrong with this deal is how it was cooked up and handled. Does not Daniel Major have any ethical standards to know that he is in a conflict of interest?! He is an agent of Maxim Finskiy (i.e. WTG), period. He is not running CMM in the interst of all shareholders. As Wingfong pointed out, there is positive cashflow for CMM from the SanJuan operation to help us over the hump.
What I find amazing is that the TSX approved the listing of WTG with no operating history, questionable asset base, and Finskiy controlling over 94% of its shares. Thus the TSX provided financial legitimacy to a questionable entity. That is why over 80% of us don't want to own any shares in WTG. Frankly, I don't care if Mr Finskiy plays golf with Mr Putin. That does not give me any comfort level about his shady financial wizardry.

Anonymous said...

Hi / i,ve never posted before but i have read alot . I bought cmm on the run up before the cto so my shares were quite high priced . but due to the in ground gold .ect i thought this stock would be at least 3.50 or more a year or so down the road. Than the games started / late filings / bad PR / that didn,t even need to be released / and never any good news / i would not pay 10 cents a share for wtg / This deal and events leading up to it stinks of total BS. As for Stormy well some village is missing an idiot.If you really think a tsx listing is the great value here you and your friends can find a 40to 50 cent per share deal there are lots of them . but my main point is i,m voting NO . i added my shares to the D. list / and thanks for starting that list.

GO said...

Big John,

I get that the merger is qustionable (at best) in terms of WTG share price and the news release.

I assure you .. the only thing I am interested in is an increased share price for the over 1M shares that myself and affiliates control.

What I am not getting is reasons why, or why not, the share price will move .. with ..or without the merger.

What are the risks vs rewards of either option ?

The fellow that got me into this stock years ago is listed on your dissenters list.

need more info.

ATInsider said...

I fully agree with Anonymous's post above mine.

Ron S. said...

Go to the web page below for a valuation of our company that was published yesterday at $3.44
By clicking the blue letters under Related Links (for Century) you can access six different pieces of information. "B" is the share price evaluation.

http://www.goldminerpulse.com/gold-mining-valuations.php

Anonymous said...

Peggy Sue,

You ask about when the mine at Lamaque will be cash flow positive:

I believe it is RIGHT NOW! for several reasons:

1) CC in February stated Lamaque mining close to 1200 tpd - We know Lamaque only needs to mine 800-900 tpd to break even...probably less if you factor in San Juan its closer to 700-800 tpd.

2) Read the March 8 PR very very carefully. ORE MINED = 1163 per day vs. ORE MILLED = 763 tpd

The extra rock from Feb is sitting there waiting to be crushed and processed which the mill can easily accommodate in March/April. CMM should be processing 1200 tpd + the 400 tpd shortfall/stockpile from Feb = 1600 tpd.

3) Daniel Major during the Mar 15 CC specificially mentions that the production levels of Lamaque were being *reviewed* not *revised downwards*...big difference.

So from that we can deduce Lamaque still on track to produce 70,000 in 2011

4) If Lamaque was falling short on the mine rate, you can be damn sure there would be a PR about it. But there is nothing, nada. zip.

CMM mgmt has been conspicously quiet about the mine rate of Lamaque and the break even points. Their "don't ask, don't tell" policy further confirms Lamaque *is* in the black.

When are the Q1 figures coming out? Ridiculous that these important numbers have yet to be released.

Payday

SigmaLamaque said...

Voting NO Means;

1. We believe that the WTG valuation is over inflated and is making this deal far more favourable to WTG shareholders.

2. We are not afraid of the scare tactics in this offer, such as the 13.5 mil break fee, and feel they would not stand up in law.

3. We don't believe CMM's short term cash problems are worth selling the company cheap when Lamaque is on track to produce 70,000 ounces this year and San Juan should produce around 20,000 ounces this year.

4. We don't believe CMM management is making decisions that are in the best interests of the minority shareholders.

5. We are not satisfied with the answers that were given to the questions asked on the last conference call and we are not happy the call was ended before all questions could be asked.

6. If the offer was truly worth .4 of $3.75, the current WTG shareprice, CMM would be trading at $1.50.

7. We would be happy to accept a $1.50 a share cash offer over the current paper offer we feel has little value.

8. We feel insulted by the sequence of events over the last serveral months.

9. That minority shareholders are pizzed off to the point that 67 million shares, and growing, have been pledged to vote against the current offer.

10. We don't like the offer but would consider a realistic offer.

Anonymous said...

I disagree that PK drove CMM to .02

It was the wega guy who kept dumping shares/hitting bid and lost big $
b/c with some 19% ownership he would not be allowed in as director.

I think potential of Russia is NaDa.

Friend started with zilch/ ended up with 6 private co. and his own jet was looking to expand into Russia even contacted Can. embassies there. "No way" his response.

To accept WTG would be going from so-so management to what
predators. Not me

Peter (can not get gmail)

bigjohn37 said...

Hi GO; I think Sigma Lamaque ( 3-4 below your post) answered your concerns/questions very well (i.e. what a NO vote means). If the market felt that WTG was a legitimate or good offer, CMM shares would be trading around $1.50 (but they are about a third that). This is a clear indication that if this deal goes through you'll be holding worthless WTG paper. That is why I'll be voting NO.

KnowNothing said...

Gee, if CMM needs cash so badly and there are obviously 70 Million shares that want to see it succeed... Why not do a rights offering - or at least a PP to those 70MM shares? I bet more than half of the shareholders would be willing to pick up shares for 50-cents with a 1/2 warrant kicker at 80-cents.

You have shareholders for a reason - they are owners of the company and I suspect many would put additional bucks into CMM to see it become successful.

Peggy Sue said...

KnowNothing, I'm not so sure... On Nov 12, 2010 Century p/r $5m PP at 0.39 with a half warrant at 0.60. On Dec 23, 2010 p/r: "Century Closes $4m PP". Where was everyone? What's changed? We had the same asset and the same prospects... the only thing is now we have an offer.

I'm concerned that voting this down hurts us more.

Anonymous said...

Look, I contacted Peter Ball way back in Dec just before christmas asking if there was still any room in the private placement at 0.39. He told me it was FULL...now CMM is saying it wasn't completely subscribed to?! I still have the email from Mr. Ball too!

Makes me wonder how many other retail investors were told "sorry" when they clearly had more room.

Payday

Anonymous said...

Probably '07 or '06 CC PK was asked if we the retail investors could be approached to supply a sh offering.

Remember her answer like it was yesterday.

"We can not do that we do not know who these people are" Knowing names & addresses was not sufficient .. go figure

KnowNothing said...

PeggySue - yes, but...

1. A rights offering is different than a PP.

2. Now that the retail masses have awakened, a true leader should be able to plead a case and get shareholder by-in.

I'd like to see CMM do a rights offering for $50MM - enough to ensure Lamaque gets to commercial production, upgrade the Mill as needed, upgrades at San Juan and EXPLORATION at Lamaque.

If the plan was clearly outlined, rational benchmarks established, and periodic reports promised - I suspect we'd see an outpouring of support.

In the mean time no one wants to deal with the Russian curse. Appears as though we dumped the devil that appeared incompetent for the devil that appears to be....well you know....

Wingfong said...

Knownothing..U are not "knownothing". I sense U know a lot n I must say I totally agree with your views..on one conditions.. That Is The Present CEO Must Be Replaced.

Nick said...

Yes the CEO needs to go. Agreed.