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I may behind the times but I just got an e-mail from Peter Ball who is now with ATX.V I guess the credible people leave first.
59 comments:
GO
said...
In my mind decision of whether to accept the merger or not boils down to:
1) If Lamaque is profitable by voting time the merger should be voted down 2) If the Lamaque is still crippled by cash issues at the time of voting then the merger should be accepted
If the BOD has not been transparent about profitability, this is grounds for a class action suit IMO.
Profitability is a material issue in relation to the merger. If the BOD, has not given full details in relation to profitability of both Lamaque and San Juan prior to the time of voting, then they are in breech of their obligation to act in the best interest of the shareholders
If the management purposely makes CMM's financial position look bad to make it seem like we need WTG's cash, then this decision making rationale would be just what management is hoping for.
Definitely this would call for a massive class action suit. I believe Gold1 is right; we would need a lawyer to represent us all as a class action suit. We are stronger by numbers. I’ve done some digging about different types of class action suit pertaining to stocks and shares, and the parties involved were always represented by lawyers. Even the accused had them.
To GO's first comment here, I think it will be scenario (2) that Lamaque is "still crippled by cash issues." As I mentioned, I think we're going to find out that: a) the grade is less than 4oz/tonne, and/or b) they're mining less than 1,200tonnes/month, and/or c) the cash cost is much higher than $500/oz.
This, I believe, is the key reason we weren't able to raise even $5m last November at $0.49 with a half warrant at $0.60.
I don't subscribe to the belief that Century Mgmt could/would just "engineer" crappy results. Rather, if they come in looking poor, perhaps it's just that the gold in Lamaque is deeper down and harder to mine than we all initially expected.
ps: can someone tell me how to post on this blog (instead of commenting)? much appreciated.
a) the grade is less than 4oz/tonne, and/or b) they're mining less than 1,200tonnes/month, and/or c) the cash cost is much higher than $500/oz.
I can't imagine any serious holder of CMM believing otherwise. That being said, even at below 3.5oz/tonne, 1100 tons per day and $800/oz cash cost, we should be very, very close to being CF positive.
I don't see lack of institutional support as a big red flag. CMM's reputation is hurt by a checkered past and lack of real results thus far. Plus, it's scary for even institutional investors to invest alongside a sketchy Russian that holds 40% of the company (defacto control). The lack of institutional support doesn't mean the mine is no good.
Hedge Fund Guy, do you mind sharing with us some of your investment/career background?
Sure Uall... I work at a hedge fund, (hence the handle). And I agree with your post, except I think with some digging into Max Finskiy's background I wouldn't call him 'sketchy,' rather less known than other native Canadian/US players. But this is the guy who helped build Norilsk and Polyus. (Many here feel he's the boogie man... I don't, but I understand.)
Also, Carib has done a great job building this site. And your Century timeline is right on. As far as Carib and 'Anonymous' calling me Peggy Sue or December1 or 3 or whatever... well, it's a nothing - doesn't add anything, it's wrong anyway, and in the case of Carib... well you've done so much for this site and so much effort, so I don't really care.
I just have a different conclusion from many here... I think that the Century asset is not as good CURRENTLY as everyone is saying and I think the WTG may not be as bad. I think that we're not getting anything more than 61% of the combined company. I think the share price is in major jeopardy if the deal is rejected as I think we are in need of more cash in the near-term, i.e., good grades and production are not just around the corner, but will eventually come. Lastly, I think the deal will indeed pass which is why I'm staying long Century.
Let's put the Lamaque project aside for now, there's no way WTG is worth more than CMM. Extensive research performed by many posters on several blogs and forums along with professional’s, conclude WTG share price and share structure is a complete fabrication to swindle Century’s shareholders from their shares.
The only way a YES can be victorious is if we get an offer of a 1 to 1 or a 1 CMM for 1.5 and/or 2 WTG shares. CMM today should be trading well above $1.00, more in the lines of $3.50. On the other hand, WTG should be trading at a respectful $0.38 to $0.50, nothing more and nothing less. This has already been concluded in a professional share value evaluation.
There’s also extensive evidence that we believe CMM BOD have been withholding for a while now, important information that can may positively impact CMM share price.
Personally I would take a 1 CMM for 0.40 WTG deal no problem, but that is the problem, there is problems, there’s many problems with this deal, several being massive inconsistencies, and a very weak March Conference Call that was suppose to help CMM share holders see how good this merger is suppose to be but instead did the complete opposite and strengthened our position for a Super Strong NO vote.
One would think both CMM & WTG would do anything to get strong support for this merger by offering us a fair market assessment value for our current CMM shares. Obviously this is far from happening.
Back to Lamaque, what is going to be there convincing argument that this merger is a win for everybody? I don’t know, perhaps they might release special information about the Lamaque production (that has been withheld from us as to drive CMM stock price down, to help justify the 1 for 0.4 deal that is clearly a complete insult to CMM shareholders) and provide new updated information as to prove the extra capital will enable Lamaque to read full production by this summer.
Yes I am ranting about this, I believe I speak for many investors that post and that currently do not post.
Currently the vote is NO unless they offer us something that is fair market value...
We may not have enough shares yet to win a majority of the minority vote, but we do have approx. 20% of the shares somewhat committed, to either put a halt to it (ie. more that 5% as per arrangement agreement) or to make so expensive for them that they will not be able to continue.
Hedge Fund Guy, in order to post, you have to become a Blog member (just send an email to Carib at centurycarib@gmail.com; as it says on top of the page).
In my mindset I see a wave of investors, who while they have indicated in the side survey that they want nothing to do with WTG paper (382)+ those who would consider 1:1 ratio (52) of the total of 435 only 241 have listed their holdings position on the "NO" table.
As such, 194 investors have still to indicate their NO position that they previously indicated in the survey.
This means that 44 % of the survey have still to indicate NO. To this we can also add some of the investors who have neither voted for nor against and are sitting on the sidelines waiting and watching.
I think the obvious will soon start becoming more apparent..... the offer will be rejected IMO
“”I think the obvious will soon start becoming apparent..... The offer will be rejected IMO.”” ------------------ Couldn’t agree more. Time is ticking away closing fast on the final day.
FREDERICTON, don't forget about (intentional and also accidental) double voting and also votes by 'shills' for CMM who might have inflated the vote counts for their own evil, nefarious reasons.
I would be absolutely flabbergasted if 435 real unique individuals voted in that earlier poll, judging from the number of even remotely active CMM message board posters there are here, at stockhouse, and at agoracom.
For the record, I'm one of those on the sidelines waiting for more detailed information.
just curious, if the Century assets are currently not as good as everyone thinks, why would Fortis Bank, after months of DD, offer to finance the whole start up at a time when the mine was sitting dormant for some time and Century was nowhere near the current mining level they are at now? The global financial crisis killed that deal.
Just for the record I believe that this whole thing was orchestrated by Finsky and gang and rapidly progressed after they forced PK to resign and Keith Hulley insisted on no more updates to shareholders also I think they are purposely not mining up their ability, tonnage and grade wise......we haven't had one bit of good news since PK was ousted...I am sure there is more doom and gloom news to come. If this combination does go through and the company moves to the British Virgin Islands, minority shareholders will be extinct. Don't forget the "Max" factor and I don't mean the make up.
Hulley insisted on no more updates to shareholders also I think they are purposely not mining up their ability, tonnage and grade wise......we haven't had one bit of good news since PK was ousted...I am sure there is more doom and gloom news to come -------------
I'm sure you are right about that. Hulley was a Finisky "yes man"...what CEO **doesn't** want monthly updates? Ones who aren't doing their jobs and running the company underground.
If there were monthly updates, shareholders would have learned about the permit delays within 30 days instead of waiting for the quarterly report.
Wouldn't surprise me one bit if those delays were deliberately orchestrated...some a-hole not filing paperwork on time or other nonsense.
Though I am seriously questioning Mr Finisky's motives.
*IF* Lamaque was an unprofitable going-concern as they expect us to believe, then Finisky would have simiply sold out his share a long time ago... NOT increase his position and exposure to CMM thru propped up shell co.s
*IF* CMM is in such dire straits, then why does White Tiger Gold want it so badly? (seems like they would just be throwing their cash away?)
*IF* Lamaque cannot mine profitable grades/tpd then why did Daniel Major insist that 70K oz were only being "reviewed" instead of "revised downwards"....
(btw, Mr. Major its been 3 weeks since the Mar 8 PR and 6 weeks since the crusher failure...WHERE IS THE PRODUCTION FORECAST REVIEW NR???)
Thanks for all your posts, they're a lot more reassuring than most of what I've read.
Being that you work at a Hedge-fund, I'm sure you've done a lot of research into CMM, so I'd like to know:
1)What you think the truth about Lamaque is?
2) Do you have any inside knowledge about how much better WTGs properties are than what most currently think?
3) Do you believe Max Finskyi actually cares about the stock price of either Century or the new company, or is he just out to make a buck for himself and we're all damned?
It was no mistake, PayDay. It was planned to give the Finskiy 51% control of the combined company which allows him to screw all the rest of us even more. His control of an off shore combined corporation will result in our 61% being diluted much more over the 12 months after the combination. We will be lucky to have 0.05 per CMM share when he is finished screwing us. We would be much better off CMM selling more shares based on the promise of Lamaque production.
That is why it is imperative that Finskiy NOT be allowed control.
1) Lamaque: I still believe in it, but I think they are behind where they thought they'd be by now. By that I mean they probably inherited a really poor mine plan from Peggy and that the higher grade ore is likely much deeper and hence more expensive to extract. I'm piecing this together from the fact that they aren't yet CF positive and have had difficulties completing relatively small PPs or getting institutional interest. Incidentally, the lack of institutional interest is why I've been able to personally accumulate the stock, i.e., for my personal account and not for my fund.
2) WTG properties: No inside knowledge here. My rationale that the properties are better than has been stated is that a) I believe Max isn't trying to pull a fast one - he has a reputation to protect and the man has been extremely successful building much larger and real companies... I've spent time doing diligence on the people here; b) I think TSX-listed companies are only allowed to report NI 43-101 reserves and this is what WTG is currently lacking... the report, I think they have larger reserves that we'll find out about AND huge properties to explore adjacent to interests owned by Norilsk that I think Max would know all about.
3) Does Max care about stock price: Yes, I think so. I think this could be a platform vehicle for him to grow organically and through M&A into a mid-tier producer, i.e., his stated goal. People here think that makes me naive, but I don't think so. It's how he builds tremendous wealth for himself and enhances his reputation. Let's not forget, Max has several other mining interests currently underway. I find it quite interesting that many here feel like he would trash his reputation and not do what he states all for the purpose of "stealing" that once in a lifetime, best kept secret to the other mining companies and institutional investors, Century Mining... Now who sounds naive?
Naive? Oh - Oh, working up some escalating nasty name calling are we? Nope not us fella. You are using the obvious, we are anything but naive. Thanks for your concern.
Looks to me like you've given a few wild ass guesses and that's about it..... I'd say your remarks are consistent with someone who was planted to put credibility where none exists. The problem is that anyone who looks at all the facts comes to same conclusion, that the deal is not beneficial to CMM minority shareholders. However, for some unexplainable reason you are incapable of seeing the truth.
I have all comments to the Blog emailed to me. Today at 5:13 PM I received an email of a post from Peggy Sue addressed to Goldenboy.
Two minutes later I received a post from hedge fund guy addressed to Goldenboy.
They were identical - word for word!!
So on checking the blog I see the first post was removed by the author. Peggy Sue changed her mind and wanted the post to be from hedge fund guy. So she deleted it and posted again from hedge fund guy.
I checked the Comments section for Spam and there again I see "post deleted by Peggy Sue".
I thought the three of you using "Max" to refer to Finskiy was sloppy, but this is really stupid.
Enough of this multiple aliases posting with the same message over and over again that we've all read. Your creation of multiple aliases to create the impression that you have other support isn't fooling anyone.
Good evening Carib! Is it possible for you to please prevent these three yahoos from posting here. I'm getting pretty fed up with them highjacking this platform for their continuos rehashing of the same old garbage.
If they would be providing some semblance of useful information I would say let them continue to blab, but the same old nonsense is getting a little tired.
Besides, do we really need to have one person trying to pull the wool over our eyes three times over with multiple aliases.
hedge fund guy/peggy sue Per Carib's revelation what u have done is ignoble, deceitful and manipulative. I never can imagine u are willing to stoop so low for a few dollars. I feel sorry for u.
NSX001, I completely share your sentiments, but unfortunately there are only two ways to eliminate this kind of posting. One is by comment moderation and the other is to restrict posts to blog members.
I've had to resort to both measures in the past, but opened the blog to all-comers a couple of weeks ago to give a forum to protesters of the theft of our company. I'm now forced to rely again on comment moderation.
This restriction does not apply to members, so to anyone that does not want this restriction and comment posting delay, please send me an email requesting membership if you are not already a member.
I will also not publish "Anonymous" posts, so choose a Name before publishing your comment.
Wingfong very eloquently summed up my feelings, as well. Too bad, we will most likely never know who put this pathetic individual up to the task. I do have my suspicions.
Peggy Sue/hedge fund guy/Goldenboy the same person? What the? This is not very nice to do. Why would you be willing to swindle your fellow shareholder. We are all here to share our views, information and assist each other, to put a stop to this bad merger deal that will hurt CMM shareholders if it passes.
Wolf Advocate Perhaps the not-so-clever (he/she was found out in such a short time by Carib our blog administrator that I can't consider the person as clever) manipulator/imposter has done something that produces unintended consequences as far as he/she is concerned. Once again, I wish to call upon all share holders to take note that they are prepared to employ deceitful tactics consistent with those we have abundantly seen so far.
carib-hedge guy,peggy and the other may be all the same person but we need some balance here.this kid,nt300,with his 18000 shares seems to post every third post -mostly negative rah-rah crap.i control 1.65million shares,so i am interested in both sides view,except to crazy emotional stuff that is just noise.p.s. great blog format-thanx cwd2
Hi cwd2 I share your view to listen to all sides of the story. In fact this is the way we can gain more understanding of the issue n hopefully help us to make some good decisions. However, if a person uses deception to post his/her views, then I must say that person has violated the previledge granted to him/her by the blog owner n has insulted the intelligence of fellow bloggers n as such should not be tolerated.I am a vote no shareholder n frankly i have yet to read any good counter argument.
I've looked for positives on the WTG side but I just don't see enough there to justify the .4 ratio? I think it's debatable but let's value all WTG assets to San Juan and call it equal. Then we take the rest of WTG, which is about 18 million in cash, and divide it by the number of WTG shares of 114 million I get 16 cents per share. Given this, why in the hell is CMM being valued at .4 of WTG? Someone please tell me what is so fabulous about this deal? My opinion is that this deal is insanity at it's finest.....
So I wrapped it up in a nutshell, with editorial of course. Let me know if I have anything wrong. Stockigloo.com
Independent, non-Russian Mobster shareholders are crying foul. They have sent this to the Canadian SEC for insider trading. They are also making a tally of non-Fininsky shareholders who are voting no. I threw my sharecount at them. If they get enough independent shareholders to cry foul, the deal will fall through by law.
In a nutshell, White Tiger is a non-43-101 compliant Russian miner with some dubious resources. It's real value has been cited as being $1 to zero. Some people call it a shell operation. Century, even heavily diluted, has real gold value. Fininsky owns about 25% of Century but does not control it. Fininsky owns about 80% of Tiger, and has squeezed the volume enough to hold share price up enough to make it look like a good deal to Century owners. BUT, at current value, the century shares would be worth .40 Tiger or 1.80. That's OK except we are getting shares in a worthless company with an artificially high value. Once the White Tiger shares are released to Century owners they may sell, add volume to the market. There will be only sells, not buys for White Tiger. So the price will drop like a stone. But Fininsky manages to recreate White Tiger as a legitimate company from a fraud shell operation and gets Century using nonsense asset, worthless asset Old White Tiger shares. Fininsky has also rigged the board and driven off legitimate Board members and now has them in his back pocket-since they are getting a lot of shares of depressed Century Stock. So, the whole deal is harmful to average shareholders and gets Fininsky out of the hotseat with White Tiger. How White Tiger ever became public is beyond me.
GoldBandit, I agree with you 100%. But in addition to the valuation, or rather over-valuation of WTG, there are a couple of other things why I dislike this merger proposal. (1) The merger would leave Finskiy in control of the new entity. If he is trying to shaft us minority shareholders when he is not in full control, I can imagine what he will do when he becomes our financial commisar! NYET-thanks! (2) He is so arrogant that he already handpicked the CEO (Daniel Major) for the new entity. Again: NYET, thanks! Whatever qualifications Major has, he lost his reputation with me because of his lies & deception. He should know that he is working for ALL shareholders, not just one!
I telephoned Century Mining and spoke to Rich Menschke.
1. He referred me to Sedar for all white Tiger documents.
2. When I asked about when the circular would come out he said "mid april" but could not give me a date.
3. I told him I wanted to see White Tiger Gold info on the CMM website and he told me he could not post "inaccurate or incomplete' information. So I said, "Wait a minute, are you saying CMM was making decisions to merge with White Tiger Gold with inaccurate or incomplete info?" - No response. Then he told me to wait for the circular.
4. I asked why Century Mining removed the slides 31-32 in the Feb Presentation from the March 2011 presentation (EV/oz slides)....no response. Could not answer where White Tiger Gold was on this slide either. Wait for the cirucular.
Just to let everyone on Stockigloo know, I posted a summary table of all the individual questions and answers from the Mar. 15 CC onto Agoracom.com.
The title is "Which were the most listened to "YouTube" questions ??????? " For those who want to punish themselves even more by listening to Major and Cowley's answers, I have included the URL links.
You can hear Peggy Kent explaining the Shareholder's Agreement which is the most listened too. It is presently at 208 views while the individal questions range from 77 to 14 views.
Cocoablini, your Editorial summs up our situation beautifully! Thanks! BTW, did you send it to regulators, the press? If not, please do so. I see from your Stockhouse profile that you live in the US. I guess WTG would have never been approved for listing there. Thanks again; why don't you consider joining Stockigloo? We need your wise words & sentiments as we'll be approaching the homestretch in our battle.
S cwd2 Your comment is greatly appreciated. Just to let you know I am not a kid, though I have 2 of my own. Yes correct I currently have 18,000 CMM shares and planning on adding to my position very soon. I sold off most of my shares weeks before the merger deal and at a time I was not aware of such a deal. Hope you join the fight to stop this merger deal. The evidence of misinformation and price manipulation along with many others you probably read about is quite overwhelming which is why my current shares along with my future shares are voting NO.
The following is a recast of a post I filed Yesterday (Monday/28) but I updated the numbers for Tues./29. Of special note is that while the number of shareholders who added their holdings to the table was "2", the number of shareholders who registerd their "NO" or 1:1 vote increased by "9". ------------------ In my mindset I see a wave of investors, who while they have indicated in the side survey that they want nothing to do with WTG paper (389)+ those who would consider 1:1 ratio (60) of the total of 449 only 247 have listed their share holdings position in the "NO" table.
As such, 202 investors have still to indicate their "NO" position that they previously indicated in the survey.
This means that 45 % of the survey have still to indicate "NO". To this we can also add some of the investors who have neither voted for nor against and are sitting on the sidelines waiting, watching and deciding.
I think the obvious will soon start becoming more apparent..... the offer will be rejected IMO
You observations and conclusions may be correct. However, you ignored the possibility that those people (who did the survey but didn't add their shares to the table) are really small shareholders of CMM, and therefore, wouldn't tip the vote either way. You also ignored the possibility that those people who said no on the survey are likely to sell their shares prior to the vote and therefore, chose not to be a part of our dissent movement.
Uall: As noted above by Anonymous, he also ignores (intentional and also accidental) double voting and also votes by 'shills' for CMM who might have inflated the vote counts for their own reasons (e.g., give us false confidence).
I think the last thing is not all that realistic because, frankly, I do not believe that CMM or WTG are paying shills to post on this board. But YMMV. However, if someone believes that shills are posting then why would they not also be voting or posting fake entries in the dissent survey as well?
Who have warned me about the shills and other situations which could distort the thesis that I am suggesting.... are absolutely correct. I wouldn't take my thesis to the bank. But by following the numbers, it does solely express only a trend rather than accuracy and that is the best that I could hope for. I still contend that if I were Major, Cowley and Finskiy, I would be looking over my shoulder for the unknowns. With 202 "unknowns" out there, could they be significant? I do not know. But if the unknows are growing, (215, 226, 235 etc..... ) I think there is substance in my contention..... and Messrs Finskiy, Major and Cowley have a little more to be concerned about. Thanks again for your observations.
A. Company insiders have the right to buy and sell securities in their own firm so long as they are complying with securities laws and rules. This means, for example, that **they can not trade in their own securities when they are in possession of "material" non-public information, such as a pending take-over bid.**
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I think Finiksy's dumping of warrants not only violated the Jan 2010 shareholder agreement, but was illegal insider trading as well.
Finisky knew there was a pending takeover bid by WTG of CMM since he owns both companies. Furthermore, the White Tiger Letter of Intent was introduced Jan 24, Finisky dumps Feb 2, LOI further ammended Feb 17, Scola dumps Feb 18.
Hi Payday 1)I do not expect RM to say anything that had not been said by the ceo. The potato is real hot n RM would certainly try to avoid being scotched by any loud mouthing on his part. Must be hard time to be in IR of CMM right now. 2)He said he could not put up inaccurate WTG info on the CMM site is embarassing n most telling. Think U froze him on the spot. 3)The info circular by mid April? Is there a chaance this ic release will be delayed intentionally to frustrate us? My concern is will such a delay jeopartises our action plan? 4) Can't rem what was in pg31-32 of the Feb presentation that were removed. Anyway to recapture what were presentated in these pages?
"There is no bankruptcy, liquidation, winding-up or other similar proceeding pending or in progress, or, to the knowledge of Century, threatened against or relating to Century or any of the Century Subsidiaries before any Governmental Entity."
------
So much for CMM being in dire financial straits.... lmao!
"fair value shall be the fair value of such shares **immediately before the passing ** by the holders of the Century Common Shares of the resolution approving the Arrangement, shall be paid an amount equal to such fair value by White Tiger; ------
Huh???
Does this mean fair value of White Tiger before passing (0.4x3.50?) or fair value of CMM before passing (48c??)
I have been following the numbers too. IMO unless somehow Fin & co has locked up the winning yes vote quantum, I am inclined to thk Federicton's observation has merits on balance. The vote NO trend is likely to be strengthening n Fin & co certainly has more things to be concerned with. What I do not like is the late release of the info circular n according to Payday the indicated date by Rich Menche( but not confirmed ) will be in mid April. I believe many are waiting for this info circular to make their final decisions.
59 comments:
In my mind decision of whether to accept the merger or not boils down to:
1) If Lamaque is profitable by voting time the merger should be voted down
2) If the Lamaque is still crippled by cash issues at the time of voting then the merger should be accepted
If the BOD has not been transparent about profitability, this is grounds for a class action suit IMO.
Profitability is a material issue in relation to the merger. If the BOD, has not given full details in relation to profitability of both Lamaque and San Juan prior to the time of voting, then they are in breech of their obligation to act in the best interest of the shareholders
If the management purposely makes CMM's financial position look bad to make it seem like we need WTG's cash, then this decision making rationale would be just what management is hoping for.
My friend & brother in the lawyering business (40 yrs in Can.) says only lawyers win in class action.
JMHO
I think there is a difference between a regular class action and on involving a stock listed in a Canadian Exchange.
It is in the interest of the securities regulators to help out in the investigation is it not?
If so this would make a big difference.
I got the same e-mail too...
Definitely this would call for a massive class action suit. I believe Gold1 is right; we would need a lawyer to represent us all as a class action suit. We are stronger by numbers.
I’ve done some digging about different types of class action suit pertaining to stocks and shares, and the parties involved were always represented by lawyers. Even the accused had them.
To GO's first comment here, I think it will be scenario (2) that Lamaque is "still crippled by cash issues." As I mentioned, I think we're going to find out that:
a) the grade is less than 4oz/tonne, and/or
b) they're mining less than 1,200tonnes/month, and/or
c) the cash cost is much higher than $500/oz.
This, I believe, is the key reason we weren't able to raise even $5m last November at $0.49 with a half warrant at $0.60.
I don't subscribe to the belief that Century Mgmt could/would just "engineer" crappy results. Rather, if they come in looking poor, perhaps it's just that the gold in Lamaque is deeper down and harder to mine than we all initially expected.
ps: can someone tell me how to post on this blog (instead of commenting)? much appreciated.
Hedge Fund Guy,
I think what you said is pretty obvious:
a) the grade is less than 4oz/tonne, and/or
b) they're mining less than 1,200tonnes/month, and/or
c) the cash cost is much higher than $500/oz.
I can't imagine any serious holder of CMM believing otherwise. That being said, even at below 3.5oz/tonne, 1100 tons per day and $800/oz cash cost, we should be very, very close to being CF positive.
I don't see lack of institutional support as a big red flag. CMM's reputation is hurt by a checkered past and lack of real results thus far. Plus, it's scary for even institutional investors to invest alongside a sketchy Russian that holds 40% of the company (defacto control). The lack of institutional support doesn't mean the mine is no good.
Hedge Fund Guy, do you mind sharing with us some of your investment/career background?
Yes Peggy Sue, I mean December1, no I mean hedge fund guy, please do give us your background info...
a) the grade is less than 4oz/tonne,
QUITE POSSIBLY. BUT IT WON'T BE LESS THAN 3 g/t
b) they're mining less than 1,200tonnes/month,
DOUBTFUL SINCE THEY WERE UPTO 1163 tpd IN FEB
c) the cash cost is much higher than $500/oz.
EVEN IF WE DOUBLE IT TO $1000/oz, ITS STILL $400/oz PROFIT.
PS. How is diluting the company by 60% with a marginal producer like WTG going to solve any of the above?? Riddle me that!
Sure Uall... I work at a hedge fund, (hence the handle). And I agree with your post, except I think with some digging into Max Finskiy's background I wouldn't call him 'sketchy,' rather less known than other native Canadian/US players. But this is the guy who helped build Norilsk and Polyus. (Many here feel he's the boogie man... I don't, but I understand.)
Also, Carib has done a great job building this site. And your Century timeline is right on. As far as Carib and 'Anonymous' calling me Peggy Sue or December1 or 3 or whatever... well, it's a nothing - doesn't add anything, it's wrong anyway, and in the case of Carib... well you've done so much for this site and so much effort, so I don't really care.
I just have a different conclusion from many here... I think that the Century asset is not as good CURRENTLY as everyone is saying and I think the WTG may not be as bad. I think that we're not getting anything more than 61% of the combined company. I think the share price is in major jeopardy if the deal is rejected as I think we are in need of more cash in the near-term, i.e., good grades and production are not just around the corner, but will eventually come. Lastly, I think the deal will indeed pass which is why I'm staying long Century.
ps: how do I post here and not just comment?
To Hedge Fund Guy....
Let's put the Lamaque project aside for now, there's no way WTG is worth more than CMM. Extensive research performed by many posters on several blogs and forums along with professional’s, conclude WTG share price and share structure is a complete fabrication to swindle Century’s shareholders from their shares.
The only way a YES can be victorious is if we get an offer of a 1 to 1 or a 1 CMM for 1.5 and/or 2 WTG shares. CMM today should be trading well above $1.00, more in the lines of $3.50. On the other hand, WTG should be trading at a respectful $0.38 to $0.50, nothing more and nothing less. This has already been concluded in a professional share value evaluation.
There’s also extensive evidence that we believe CMM BOD have been withholding for a while now, important information that can may positively impact CMM share price.
Personally I would take a 1 CMM for 0.40 WTG deal no problem, but that is the problem, there is problems, there’s many problems with this deal, several being massive inconsistencies, and a very weak March Conference Call that was suppose to help CMM share holders see how good this merger is suppose to be but instead did the complete opposite and strengthened our position for a Super Strong NO vote.
One would think both CMM & WTG would do anything to get strong support for this merger by offering us a fair market assessment value for our current CMM shares. Obviously this is far from happening.
Back to Lamaque, what is going to be there convincing argument that this merger is a win for everybody? I don’t know, perhaps they might release special information about the Lamaque production (that has been withheld from us as to drive CMM stock price down, to help justify the 1 for 0.4 deal that is clearly a complete insult to CMM shareholders) and provide new updated information as to prove the extra capital will enable Lamaque to read full production by this summer.
Yes I am ranting about this, I believe I speak for many investors that post and that currently do not post.
Currently the vote is NO unless they offer us something that is fair market value...
We may not have enough shares yet to win a majority of the minority vote, but we do have approx. 20% of the shares somewhat committed, to either put a halt to it (ie. more that 5% as per arrangement agreement) or to make so expensive for them that they will not be able to continue.
NSX001.
Hedge Fund Guy,
in order to post, you have to become a Blog member (just send an email to Carib at centurycarib@gmail.com; as it says on top of the page).
In my mindset I see a wave of investors, who while they have indicated in the side survey that they want nothing to do with WTG paper (382)+ those who would consider 1:1 ratio (52) of the total of 435 only 241 have listed their holdings position on the "NO" table.
As such, 194 investors have still to indicate their NO position that they previously indicated in the survey.
This means that 44 % of the survey have still to indicate NO. To this we can also add some of the investors who have neither voted for nor against and are sitting on the sidelines waiting and watching.
I think the obvious will soon start becoming more apparent..... the offer will be rejected IMO
“”I think the obvious will soon start becoming apparent..... The offer will be rejected IMO.””
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Couldn’t agree more. Time is ticking away closing fast on the final day.
FREDERICTON, don't forget about (intentional and also accidental) double voting and also votes by 'shills' for CMM who might have inflated the vote counts for their own evil, nefarious reasons.
I would be absolutely flabbergasted if 435 real unique individuals voted in that earlier poll, judging from the number of even remotely active CMM message board posters there are here, at stockhouse, and at agoracom.
For the record, I'm one of those on the sidelines waiting for more detailed information.
just curious, if the Century assets are currently not as good as everyone thinks, why would Fortis Bank, after months of DD, offer to finance the whole start up at a time when the mine was sitting dormant for some time and Century was nowhere near the current mining level they are at now? The global financial crisis killed that deal.
Just for the record I believe that this whole thing was orchestrated by Finsky and gang and rapidly progressed after they forced PK to resign and Keith Hulley insisted on no more updates to shareholders also I think they are purposely not mining up their ability, tonnage and grade wise......we haven't had one bit of good news since PK was ousted...I am sure there is more doom and gloom news to come. If this combination does go through and the company moves to the British Virgin Islands, minority shareholders will be extinct. Don't forget the "Max" factor and I don't mean the make up.
Hulley insisted on no more updates to shareholders also I think they are purposely not mining up their ability, tonnage and grade wise......we haven't had one bit of good news since PK was ousted...I am sure there is more doom and gloom news to come
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I'm sure you are right about that. Hulley was a Finisky "yes man"...what CEO **doesn't** want monthly updates? Ones who aren't doing their jobs and running the company underground.
If there were monthly updates, shareholders would have learned about the permit delays within 30 days instead of waiting for the quarterly report.
Wouldn't surprise me one bit if those delays were deliberately orchestrated...some a-hole not filing paperwork on time or other nonsense.
Though I am seriously questioning Mr Finisky's motives.
*IF* Lamaque was an unprofitable going-concern as they expect us to believe, then Finisky would have simiply sold out his share a long time ago... NOT increase his position and exposure to CMM thru propped up shell co.s
*IF* CMM is in such dire straits, then why does White Tiger Gold want it so badly? (seems like they would just be throwing their cash away?)
*IF* Lamaque cannot mine profitable grades/tpd then why did Daniel Major insist that 70K oz were only being "reviewed" instead of "revised downwards"....
(btw, Mr. Major its been 3 weeks since the Mar 8 PR and 6 weeks since the crusher failure...WHERE IS THE PRODUCTION FORECAST REVIEW NR???)
To Hedge-fund guy:
Thanks for all your posts, they're a lot more reassuring than most of what I've read.
Being that you work at a Hedge-fund, I'm sure you've done a lot of research into CMM, so I'd like to know:
1)What you think the truth about Lamaque is?
2) Do you have any inside knowledge about how much better WTGs properties are than what most currently think?
3) Do you believe Max Finskyi actually cares about the stock price of either Century or the new company, or is he just out to make a buck for himself and we're all damned?
Thanks
So funny! HFG To Golden boy!
What h fundy has time visiting both here & SH. With prescripted
posts. Agora also?Say hi to Maxy for us.
It was no mistake, PayDay. It was planned to give the Finskiy 51% control of the combined company which allows him to screw all the rest of us even more. His control of an off shore combined corporation will result in our 61% being diluted much more over the 12 months after the combination. We will be lucky to have 0.05 per CMM share when he is finished screwing us. We would be much better off CMM selling more shares based on the promise of Lamaque production.
That is why it is imperative that Finskiy NOT be allowed control.
Goldenboy,
1) Lamaque: I still believe in it, but I think they are behind where they thought they'd be by now. By that I mean they probably inherited a really poor mine plan from Peggy and that the higher grade ore is likely much deeper and hence more expensive to extract. I'm piecing this together from the fact that they aren't yet CF positive and have had difficulties completing relatively small PPs or getting institutional interest. Incidentally, the lack of institutional interest is why I've been able to personally accumulate the stock, i.e., for my personal account and not for my fund.
2) WTG properties: No inside knowledge here. My rationale that the properties are better than has been stated is that a) I believe Max isn't trying to pull a fast one - he has a reputation to protect and the man has been extremely successful building much larger and real companies... I've spent time doing diligence on the people here; b) I think TSX-listed companies are only allowed to report NI 43-101 reserves and this is what WTG is currently lacking... the report, I think they have larger reserves that we'll find out about AND huge properties to explore adjacent to interests owned by Norilsk that I think Max would know all about.
3) Does Max care about stock price: Yes, I think so. I think this could be a platform vehicle for him to grow organically and through M&A into a mid-tier producer, i.e., his stated goal. People here think that makes me naive, but I don't think so. It's how he builds tremendous wealth for himself and enhances his reputation. Let's not forget, Max has several other mining interests currently underway. I find it quite interesting that many here feel like he would trash his reputation and not do what he states all for the purpose of "stealing" that once in a lifetime, best kept secret to the other mining companies and institutional investors, Century Mining... Now who sounds naive?
Naive?
Oh - Oh, working up some escalating nasty name calling are we?
Nope not us fella.
You are using the obvious, we are anything but naive.
Thanks for your concern.
Hedge Fund Dude,
Looks to me like you've given a few wild ass guesses and that's about it..... I'd say your remarks are consistent with someone who was planted to put credibility where none exists. The problem is that anyone who looks at all the facts comes to same conclusion, that the deal is not beneficial to CMM minority shareholders. However, for some unexplainable reason you are incapable of seeing the truth.
To Hedge fund guy:
Thanks for your answers.
One more question: Why do you believe Finskyi didn't just exercise warrants and put the cash into century instead of going the bridge loan route?
Thanks again.
Peggy Sue/hedge fund guy/Goldenboy,
The jig is up.
I have all comments to the Blog emailed to me. Today at 5:13 PM I received an email of a post from Peggy Sue addressed to Goldenboy.
Two minutes later I received a post from hedge fund guy addressed to Goldenboy.
They were identical - word for word!!
So on checking the blog I see the first post was removed by the author. Peggy Sue changed her mind and wanted the post to be from hedge fund guy. So she deleted it and posted again from hedge fund guy.
I checked the Comments section for Spam and there again I see "post deleted by Peggy Sue".
I thought the three of you using "Max" to refer to Finskiy was sloppy, but this is really stupid.
Enough of this multiple aliases posting with the same message over and over again that we've all read. Your creation of multiple aliases to create the impression that you have other support isn't fooling anyone.
Hey Goldenboy, I guess we're the same person... lol
" Hey Goldenboy, I guess we're the same person... lol"
Awesome, I always wanted a twin. Can you go to work for me tomorrow, I got some errands to run- oh yeah, and I have to call my buddy, Max.
Haha... wow, this is comedic!
Good evening Carib! Is it possible for you to please prevent these three yahoos from posting here. I'm getting pretty fed up with them highjacking this platform for their continuos rehashing of the same old garbage.
If they would be providing some semblance of useful information I would say let them continue to blab, but the same old nonsense is getting a little tired.
Besides, do we really need to have one person trying to pull the wool over our eyes three times over with multiple aliases.
NSX001
hedge fund guy/peggy sue
Per Carib's revelation what u have done is ignoble, deceitful and manipulative. I never can imagine u are willing to stoop so low for a few dollars. I feel sorry for u.
NSX001, I completely share your sentiments, but unfortunately there are only two ways to eliminate this kind of posting. One is by comment moderation and the other is to restrict posts to blog members.
I've had to resort to both measures in the past, but opened the blog to all-comers a couple of weeks ago to give a forum to protesters of the theft of our company. I'm now forced to rely again on comment moderation.
This restriction does not apply to members, so to anyone that does not want this restriction and comment posting delay, please send me an email requesting membership if you are not already a member.
I will also not publish "Anonymous" posts, so choose a Name before publishing your comment.
Wingfong very eloquently summed up my feelings, as well. Too bad, we will most likely never know who put this pathetic individual up to the task. I do have my suspicions.
Peggy Sue/hedge fund guy/Goldenboy the same person? What the? This is not very nice to do. Why would you be willing to swindle your fellow shareholder. We are all here to share our views, information and assist each other, to put a stop to this bad merger deal that will hurt CMM shareholders if it passes.
Wolf Advocate
Perhaps the not-so-clever (he/she was found out in such a short time by Carib our blog administrator that I can't consider the person as clever) manipulator/imposter has done something that produces unintended consequences as far as he/she is concerned. Once again, I wish to call upon all share holders to take note that they are prepared to employ deceitful tactics consistent with those we have abundantly seen so far.
carib-hedge guy,peggy and the other may be all the same person but we need some balance here.this kid,nt300,with his 18000 shares seems to post every third post -mostly negative rah-rah crap.i control 1.65million shares,so i am interested in both sides view,except to crazy emotional stuff that is just noise.p.s. great blog format-thanx cwd2
cwd2, are you going to be adding your shares to the dissenters list or are you waiting for more information?
So far you have lost $500K in equity since this deal is announced.
How do you expect to find value in your holdings if they are reduced to 660K WTG?
Hi cwd2
I share your view to listen to all sides of the story. In fact this is the way we can gain more understanding of the issue n hopefully help us to make some good decisions. However, if a person uses deception to post his/her views, then I must say that person has violated the previledge granted to him/her by the blog owner n has insulted the intelligence of fellow bloggers n as such should not be tolerated.I am a vote no shareholder n frankly i have yet to read any good counter argument.
cwd2,
I've looked for positives on the WTG side but I just don't see enough there to justify the .4 ratio? I think it's debatable but let's value all WTG assets to San Juan and call it equal. Then we take the rest of WTG, which is about 18 million in cash, and divide it by the number of WTG shares of 114 million I get 16 cents per share. Given this, why in the hell is CMM being valued at .4 of WTG? Someone please tell me what is so fabulous about this deal? My opinion is that this deal is insanity at it's finest.....
So I wrapped it up in a nutshell, with editorial of course. Let me know if I have anything wrong.
Stockigloo.com
Independent, non-Russian Mobster shareholders are crying foul.
They have sent this to the Canadian SEC for insider trading.
They are also making a tally of non-Fininsky shareholders who are voting no. I threw my sharecount at them. If they get enough independent shareholders to cry foul, the deal will fall through by law.
In a nutshell, White Tiger is a non-43-101 compliant Russian miner with some dubious resources. It's real value has been cited as being $1 to zero. Some people call it a shell operation.
Century, even heavily diluted, has real gold value. Fininsky owns about 25% of Century but does not control it.
Fininsky owns about 80% of Tiger, and has squeezed the volume enough to hold share price up enough to make it look like a good deal to Century owners.
BUT, at current value, the century shares would be worth .40 Tiger or 1.80. That's OK except we are getting shares in a worthless company with an artificially high value.
Once the White Tiger shares are released to Century owners they may sell, add volume to the market. There will be only sells, not buys for White Tiger. So the price will drop like a stone.
But Fininsky manages to recreate White Tiger as a legitimate company from a fraud shell operation and gets Century using nonsense asset, worthless asset Old White Tiger shares.
Fininsky has also rigged the board and driven off legitimate Board members and now has them in his back pocket-since they are getting a lot of shares of depressed Century Stock.
So, the whole deal is harmful to average shareholders and gets Fininsky out of the hotseat with White Tiger.
How White Tiger ever became public is beyond me.
GoldBandit, I agree with you 100%. But in addition to the valuation, or rather over-valuation of WTG, there are a couple of other things why I dislike this merger proposal. (1) The merger would leave Finskiy in control of the new entity. If he is trying to shaft us minority shareholders when he is not in full control, I can imagine what he will do when he becomes our financial commisar! NYET-thanks!
(2) He is so arrogant that he already handpicked the CEO (Daniel Major) for the new entity. Again: NYET, thanks! Whatever qualifications Major has, he lost his reputation with me because of his lies & deception. He should know that he is working for ALL shareholders, not just one!
I telephoned Century Mining and spoke to Rich Menschke.
1. He referred me to Sedar for all white Tiger documents.
2. When I asked about when the circular would come out he said "mid april" but could not give me a date.
3. I told him I wanted to see White Tiger Gold info on the CMM website and he told me he could not post "inaccurate or incomplete' information. So I said, "Wait a minute, are you saying CMM was making decisions to merge with White Tiger Gold with inaccurate or incomplete info?" - No response. Then he told me to wait for the circular.
4. I asked why Century Mining removed the slides 31-32 in the Feb Presentation from the March 2011 presentation (EV/oz slides)....no response. Could not answer where White Tiger Gold was on this slide either. Wait for the cirucular.
So another brick wall.
Just to let everyone on Stockigloo know, I posted a summary table of all the individual questions and answers from the Mar. 15 CC onto Agoracom.com.
The title is "Which were the most listened to "YouTube" questions ??????? " For those who want to punish themselves even more by listening to Major and Cowley's answers, I have included the URL links.
You can hear Peggy Kent explaining the Shareholder's Agreement which is the most listened too. It is presently at 208 views while the individal questions range from 77 to 14 views.
Cocoablini, your Editorial summs up our situation beautifully! Thanks! BTW, did you send it to regulators, the press? If not, please do so. I see from your Stockhouse profile that you live in the US. I guess WTG would have never been approved for listing there. Thanks again; why don't you consider joining Stockigloo? We need your wise words & sentiments as we'll be approaching the homestretch in our battle.
What open access source is available to show share ownership of WTG?
Anyone?
S cwd2
Your comment is greatly appreciated.
Just to let you know I am not a kid, though I have 2 of my own. Yes correct I currently have 18,000 CMM shares and planning on adding to my position very soon. I sold off most of my shares weeks before the merger deal and at a time I was not aware of such a deal. Hope you join the fight to stop this merger deal. The evidence of misinformation and price manipulation along with many others you probably read about is quite overwhelming which is why my current shares along with my future shares are voting NO.
The following is a recast of a post I filed Yesterday (Monday/28) but I updated the numbers for Tues./29. Of special note is that while the number of shareholders who added their holdings to the table was "2", the number of shareholders who registerd their "NO" or 1:1 vote increased by "9".
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In my mindset I see a wave of investors, who while they have indicated in the side survey that they want nothing to do with WTG paper (389)+ those who would consider 1:1 ratio (60) of the total of 449 only 247 have listed their share holdings position in the "NO" table.
As such, 202 investors have still to indicate their "NO" position that they previously indicated in the survey.
This means that 45 % of the survey have still to indicate "NO". To this we can also add some of the investors who have neither voted for nor against and are sitting on the sidelines waiting, watching and deciding.
I think the obvious will soon start becoming more apparent..... the offer will be rejected IMO
Fredericton,
You observations and conclusions may be correct. However, you ignored the possibility that those people (who did the survey but didn't add their shares to the table) are really small shareholders of CMM, and therefore, wouldn't tip the vote either way. You also ignored the possibility that those people who said no on the survey are likely to sell their shares prior to the vote and therefore, chose not to be a part of our dissent movement.
Uall: As noted above by Anonymous, he also ignores (intentional and also accidental) double voting and also votes by 'shills' for CMM who might have inflated the vote counts for their own reasons (e.g., give us false confidence).
I think the last thing is not all that realistic because, frankly, I do not believe that CMM or WTG are paying shills to post on this board. But YMMV. However, if someone believes that shills are posting then why would they not also be voting or posting fake entries in the dissent survey as well?
Uall and others....
Who have warned me about the shills and other situations which could distort the thesis that I am suggesting.... are absolutely correct. I wouldn't take my thesis to the bank. But by following the numbers, it does solely express only a trend rather than accuracy and that is the best that I could hope for. I still contend that if I were Major, Cowley and Finskiy, I would be looking over my shoulder for the unknowns. With 202 "unknowns" out there, could they be significant? I do not know. But if the unknows are growing, (215, 226, 235 etc..... ) I think there is substance in my contention..... and Messrs Finskiy, Major and Cowley have a little more to be concerned about. Thanks again for your observations.
Q. Is Insider Trading Legal?
A. Company insiders have the right to buy and sell securities in their own firm so long as they are complying with securities laws and rules. This means, for example, that **they can not trade in their own securities when they are in possession of "material" non-public information, such as a pending take-over bid.**
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I think Finiksy's dumping of warrants not only violated the Jan 2010 shareholder agreement, but was illegal insider trading as well.
Finisky knew there was a pending takeover bid by WTG of CMM since he owns both companies. Furthermore, the White Tiger Letter of Intent was introduced Jan 24, Finisky dumps Feb 2, LOI further ammended Feb 17, Scola dumps Feb 18.
Are these men guilty or what?!
Hi Payday
1)I do not expect RM to say anything that had not been said by the ceo. The potato is real hot n RM would certainly try to avoid being scotched by any loud mouthing on his part. Must be hard time to be in IR of CMM right now.
2)He said he could not put up inaccurate WTG info on the CMM site is embarassing n most telling. Think U froze him on the spot.
3)The info circular by mid April? Is there a chaance this ic release will be delayed intentionally to frustrate us? My concern is will such a delay jeopartises our action plan?
4) Can't rem what was in pg31-32 of the Feb presentation that were removed. Anyway to recapture what were presentated in these pages?
Sedar: March 21 Material Document (440K)
ARRANGEMENT AGREEMENT PAGE 22:
"There is no bankruptcy, liquidation, winding-up or other similar proceeding
pending or in progress, or, to the knowledge of Century, threatened against or relating to
Century or any of the Century Subsidiaries before any Governmental Entity."
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So much for CMM being in dire financial straits.... lmao!
DISSENT SHAREHOLDERS:
"fair value shall be the fair value of such shares **immediately before the passing ** by the holders of the Century Common Shares of the resolution approving the Arrangement, shall be
paid an amount equal to such fair value by White Tiger;
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Huh???
Does this mean fair value of White Tiger before passing (0.4x3.50?) or fair value of CMM before passing (48c??)
Huh???
Does this mean fair value of White Tiger before passing (0.4x3.50?) or fair value of CMM before passing (48c??)
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Payday, awesome find, I too am wondering what that means?
I have been following the numbers too. IMO unless somehow Fin & co has locked up the winning yes vote quantum, I am inclined to thk Federicton's observation has merits on balance. The vote NO trend is likely to be strengthening n Fin & co certainly has more things to be concerned with. What I do not like is the late release of the info circular n according to Payday the indicated date by Rich Menche( but not confirmed ) will be in mid April. I believe many are waiting for this info circular to make their final decisions.
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